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I thought this was going to be satire, co authored by Caitlin Moran and some people I d never heard of the blurb makes it sound that way In fact, it is the transcript of a mostly serious live debate, with pre and post debate interviews and some very short commentary by journalists It was still an okay read, just not what I was expecting. This is a book about a bunch of rabid feminists rambling non stop about how men are evil and are somehow going extinct and that in the coming future, the proper role of a man would be that of a sperm slave The only thing good about this book is that it has Camille Paglia refuting those rabid feminists. This reminds me of my friend Gloria s Facebook polls, in that it s a disingenuous yes no question where the reality is complex and nuanced Toxic masculinity is obsolete Men themselves aren t in any danger of going extinct, and the sociopolitical structures that were built for their benefit continue to run in much the same biased way On the pro side, the No, men are not obsolete argument, I found Caitlin Moran charming and persuasive I ve read her How to Be a Woman book previously and C This reminds me of my friend Gloria s Facebook polls, in that it s a disingenuous yes no question where the reality is complex and nuanced Toxic masculinity is obsolete Men themselves aren t in any danger of going extinct, and the sociopolitical structures that were built for their benefit continue to run in much the same biased way On the pro side, the No, men are not obsolete argument, I found Caitlin Moran charming and persuasive I ve read her How to Be a Woman book previously and Camille Paglia utterly repulsive I m tempted to read some of Paglia s other work just for the fun of getting all riled up.All in all, reading the debate was a good way to spend International Woman s Day Don t be misled by the clickbait title this is not the work of the stereotypical Angry Feminist suggesting that we do away with half the human race Nor is it jut the work of Caitlin Moran but that s a Goodreads admin point This is a transcript of one of the Munk Debates, pitting four brilliant women Hanna Rosin, Maureen Dowd, Camille Paglia and Caitlin Moran against each other on the topic of gender equality and the future of men in a world where women are outperforming them across sect Don t be misled by the clickbait title this is not the work of the stereotypical Angry Feminist suggesting that we do away with half the human race Nor is it jut the work of Caitlin Moran but that s a Goodreads admin point This is a transcript of one of the Munk Debates, pitting four brilliant women Hanna Rosin, Maureen Dowd, Camille Paglia and Caitlin Moran against each other on the topic of gender equality and the future of men in a world where women are outperforming them across sectors.I picked this up in the library for the exact reason I m telling you not to judge it the title made me laugh because it s totally absurd In the opening words of the For argument, Rosin admitsFor one thing, we haven t figured out how to harvest their sperm without, you know, keeping them alive So you can see there is a lotto this debate than an outlandish proposition It s not a clear cut topic by any means, and the four speakers agreed on a number of areas There was far too much ground to cover in a relatively short debate, but the speakers touched on areas such as the crisis of masculinity, the intersection with class in the case of the working class man and the many faces of feminism There will no doubt be critics who will scream but how can four women be debating whether or not men are obsolete How dare they To them I say men have been debating the value of women for many centuries, so frankly it was refreshing to have the tables turned and have an all female panel offering up eloquent, balanced arguments Certainly the male chair, Rudyard Griffiths felt safe with Moran and Paglia arguing against the motion Caitlin Moran Aren t you enormously grateful that I m not saying that men should be exterminated Rudyard Griffiths Thank you.Caitlin Moran We re not going to come around and just put you all in big dumpsters Rudyard Griffiths My Y chromosome will live to see another day.The debate started with the audience voting against the motion 82 18but how did they vote after closing arguments I ll mark the rest of my review in spoilers for when you ve had a chance to read the arguments view spoiler The crux of this debate is really around the definition of obsolescence a word which I am now in love with As Rosin argued in her opening statement, the fundamental biological need for the male half of the population remains However, it was her eloquent closing argument that really sealed the deal in the minds of the voting audienceI think there is some confusion out there about what you are voting for if you vote for us When we say men are obsolete, that doesn t mean they are worthless, or that we want to stomp on them, or that we hate them.the twin combustion engine technically makes the bicycle obsolete That doesn t mean that we hate the bicycle or want to throw it awayYou are allowed to preserve the parts of manhood that you love and valuewhile at the same time recognising that there needs to be some adjustments if men, and particularly certain men, are going to survive the modern world.Arguably it was this closer that swung the audience from 82 18 opposed, to 56 44 opposed a huge swing that was deemed a victory for Rosin and Dowd arguing for the motion hide spoiler Aside from my obvious interest in the content, this book really piqued by interest in the art of debate, and I would encourage all to read this with that in mind in this new, uncertain age of Brexit and Trump, we must never lose our ability to speak and debate This book had a very catchy title but wasn t really the heart of the debate as it soundstowards obsolete as useless whereas the debate was really centered on the change of gender roles and the rose of women in the workplace and in high ranking positions globally I very much respected the points made that as North America has exported middle class trade labour jobs there has been a trend to assume that men are less capable or valued when they aren t A fascinating read. I think it was a short interesting debate and apart from Maureen Dowd, the rest of the debtors had interesting insights to share I, of course, was on the side of Caitlin Moran and Camille Paglia, especially the latter. This is a transcript of a Munk debate that took place in 2013 The question was Are men obsolete , and it was understood slightly different by the different debaters Hanna Rosin, author of The End of Men , and Maureen Dowd, author of Are Men Necessary , pleaded for a for the motion Caitlin Moran, author of How To Be A Woman , and Camille Paglia, author of Sex, Art and American Culture, pleaded against it Rosin and Dowd argued that women are largely outperforming men in school, educatio This is a transcript of a Munk debate that took place in 2013 The question was Are men obsolete , and it was understood slightly different by the different debaters Hanna Rosin, author of The End of Men , and Maureen Dowd, author of Are Men Necessary , pleaded for a for the motion Caitlin Moran, author of How To Be A Woman , and Camille Paglia, author of Sex, Art and American Culture, pleaded against it Rosin and Dowd argued that women are largely outperforming men in school, education, and soon the labour market, and that the concept of masculinity as it was understood for centuries is becoming outdated Even in working class environments women are now raising kids by themselves and fathers are mostly absent They insisted they didn t want to be misunderstood as men hating feminists but urged the audience to acknowledge the existence of a crisis of manhood.Paglia and Moran admit that masculinity may be going through a crisis but argue that the world doesn t gain anything from letting the concept of man die instead they argue that the diversity of genders and the sexual tension that arises from it, is a beautiful thing to maintain and to foster They also point out that only looking at changes happening in higher social classes ignores the large portions of society, both in America and globally, where traditional gender roles haven t changed an ounce Also, Paglia points out the importance to acknowledge all the vital, tough work that men have done and are still doing without which society wouldn t be running think of builders, sewage cleaners, etcSometimes it felt as if the participants were arguing on a different motion and talking at cross purposes, and that in reality they didn t disagree very much After the transcript of the debate, the book also contains a couple of analyses of the debate by other authors One criticism pointed out was the lack of facts that were given to support the argument As this was an originally oral debate, the debaters tried to keep it fresh by making lots of supposedly funny references to American pop culture from the year 2013, which I frankly didn t relate to much I was hoping that this little book might be an easy introduction into the debate about broken masculinity, but my expectations weren t really met Good thing it s a very tiny book that is read quickly though, so I wouldn t go as far as to say it was a waste of time Still picked up a few thoughts and ideas here and there This was a big fat disappointment The debaters were not really debating the point in question Camille Paglia was stubbornly fixated on how we don t value manual labor any which acc to her is intrinsically male whose side you on Camille , Maureen Dowd mentioned Ted Cruz one time too many and Caitlin Moran didn t like the question Hanna Rosin seemed to be the only one who actually debating the thing but even her argument didn t reach into the depths and answer whether the structures o This was a big fat disappointment The debaters were not really debating the point in question Camille Paglia was stubbornly fixated on how we don t value manual labor any which acc to her is intrinsically male whose side you on Camille , Maureen Dowd mentioned Ted Cruz one time too many and Caitlin Moran didn t like the question Hanna Rosin seemed to be the only one who actually debating the thing but even her argument didn t reach into the depths and answer whether the structures our world functions on build by men, for men are being eroded or molded or what That left out families, politics, sex, gender, masculinity and femininity and oh, about everything else too Some fault, it seems to me, lies in the phrasing of the debate question Maybe if the debate was titled, Are women winning , they would have concentrated on how well women are doing, and not whether men going obsolete is a good thing or not It s too bad de Beauvoir is dead, because she would have been so so good in this debate There s this 1967 video on yt in which she says that things are worse for womenthan they had been when she wrote The Second Sex 49 What would she have to say for today Have some women achieved subject status or have men just been bought into object status along with women So much to be said And this 1 and a half hour debate didn t even tap on it Lastly a big boo to the men in the YouTube chat there were ONLY men who truly deserve to be obsolete, why did the sponsors of the debate look so sleepy and washed out , the panelist was also kinda off, the after debate interviews were better and should have been longer as should have the debate A classic example of the posturing of the Anglo Saxon middle class ogling at public intellectuals performing like seals in pseudo debates relying on predictable position taking.There is merit in some of Hanna Rosin s analysis of the economics underpinning power shifts between genders but even she is speaking of a game played by the middle classes that scarcely affects the lack of power wielded by most working people of both sexes.The only one who has something of value to say is the redoubtabl A classic example of the posturing of the Anglo Saxon middle class ogling at public intellectuals performing like seals in pseudo debates relying on predictable position taking.There is merit in some of Hanna Rosin s analysis of the economics underpinning power shifts between genders but even she is speaking of a game played by the middle classes that scarcely affects the lack of power wielded by most working people of both sexes.The only one who has something of value to say is the redoubtable and ultimately humane Camille Paglia and even she is not at her best in the cheapening format of the public performance debate Good basic truths like the need to see men and women as persons who are equally under pressure Moran are lost in over clever grandstanding I am not sure what the point of Maureen Dowd actually is Certainly it is not the elucidation of anything meaningful hereThese debates purport to be political education but real political education is participative and consultative whereas these events are simply people who often confuse cleverness with genius speaking at or down to an open mouthed audience of worshippers.All the jocularity and in jokes about American politics, cheap debating points and posturing in the end amount to less than a hill of beans Go direct to Paglia and Rosin and make a judgment on theirconsidered writings.Perhaps intended as edutainment , these debates are for intellectual lightweights Here we have very little useful information and if you are entertained by this sort of thing you would probably be a bore at a decent dinner party Otherwise, don t bother ^READ KINDLE ✙ Are Men Obsolete? ↟ Men are so last century They seem to have stopped evolving The Mad Men world is disappearing and the guys are struggling to figure out the altered parameters of manliness Maureen Dowd Do women get anything from men being obsolete Do we win by triumphing in work, education, the economy, politics and business, while retaining homemaking and child rearing If that happened then we will be doing everything Are men obsolete No I won t let you be you f s Caitlin Moran Are Men Obsolete is an essential and entertaining read for anyone interested in what happens next in the great gender discussion Maureen Dowd, Caitlin Moran, Camille Paglia and Hanna Roisin debate whether modern man is past his sell by date, and, if so, what does that mean for women